Permits "On Hold"

The status on the city's website now shows that our permit is "on hold" since Friday. We asked Ryan if he'd heard from them, and what they were waiting on. He got back to us today saying that they want justification for being "over height". Ugh. We're only technically over height because they are comparing the height of our house to the 4 houses next to us. 3 of these houses are single story. If they were 2 story houses, we wouldn't be considered over height. And these bungalows are the last 3 single story houses on the street. I predict they will be gone in the next 5-10 years. At that point this house will not be too tall. So, we have to convince the city planner to let us build it.

But we expected to have to justify it. We knew that any number of interested parties could complain. And we were under the impression that the city planner would hear those complaints and our justification and make a decision.

The neighbours have not complained. The community association has not complained. The city counsellor for our ward hasn't complained. It's all just the city planner being a bureaucratic ass. In fact, the neighbours have had a vacant lot on their street for 2 years now that is overgrown with weeds and used as a garbage dump. They just want SOMETHING built already. So the planner's job is supposed to be to make sure nothing gets put in that causes distress to the neighbours, and HE'S the one causing distress.

And despite knowing this would come, and having discussed our justifications, Ryan is acting like it's a complete shock and we need to discuss it now. No. Here are the reasons we've already come up with. Respond to the city and get this moving. Don't wait until 2 days after the city has contacted you to pass the message on. And then tell us to think of things and get back to you in a few days. Argh.

There were 2 comments on our plans from the city counsellor which have us shaking our heads. Number one is they want us to build an apartment above the garage. Brilliant idea. Or at least it was when we suggested it to the city planners last summer. But the planners told us that it would represent a bigger burden to the neighbours, Putting an apartment on top of the garage would require us to build a double height garage which would look down on the neighbours' yards. But the city counsellor thinks we should add it? MrDinks doesn't like the idea anyway, because it would cost more to build, and he doesn't want to be a landlord.

The other comment from the counsellor was to make the front porch deeper. But the city planners have already rejected our plans for being too close to the street and we had to move it back. So now we have to move it back further? Or we're allowed to stick out another foot towards the street? Just a couple of examples of how different branches of the city conflict with each other.

Meanwhile, still getting quotes.

It was brought to our attention by the window people that all our doors, including the man doors on the garage, have been spec'd at 4' wide. Standard doors don't come that big. We'd have to get them custom made by a company that does commercial doors. So we asked Ryan why the doors were all so big. Because MrDinks commented that he wanted the doors to be big enough to get furniture through. He meant at least ONE door being the max size we could get standard. But Ryan took that comment and made all the doors oversized. Including the garage, which already has 2 giant doors designed for getting CARS through. But just in case that's not enough, we've got 2 more extra wide doors. We pointed out to Ryan that these extra wide doors are not standard. And he said, "oh yeah, you'll need to get those custom made." Okay, so you knowingly spec'd out an extra $40k in doors based on an off-hand comment? Thank-you. Fortunately, we can get those shrunk down. 

Finally, some signs of progress

I phoned the city today to ask what's going on with our permit application. There's a website I can track it at, but I wasn't clear about what some of the notations meant, and nothing seemed to be progressing. For example, one of the to do items was to notify the community association. There's a date next to that. I'm pretty sure the date next to it is the date they added this to the list, not the date the community association was notified. So I called to confirm that. Sure enough, this has not been done. They are "scheduled" to notify the CA on March 20. It "might" happen before.

So I asked about putting the sign on the lot for the neighbors to comment. That was "scheduled" for yesterday. Hmmm, did it happen? While out on various errands, I stopped in, and sure enough, there are 2 signs taped to our construction fencing. The neighbors have until March 24 to comment.

Ryan also heard from the planner that they will be having their review meeting next week and will have comments after that. 

So, for the first time since Christmas, I am feeling like we might get our permits before the snow flies next winter.

In the mean time, I'm collecting quotes for various pieces of the build. We need to set the budget to go to the bank to set up the construction loan. I need prices on everything from framing to light bulbs. In general, it's a struggle to get prices out of people. The first thing out of everyone's mouth is "we need to come to your house to measure the space." I explain that there IS no space at the moment. So then they tell me to call them once we've started building. We can't start building without prices. So then they reluctantly give me prices, with a disclaimer that it might go up.Well that doesn't work, we can borrow less than we originally asked for, but we can't ask for more. But these companies aren't used to people buying directly for their own builds. Most people go through a builder who arranges all this stuff for them.  

2 big chunks of the budget are the windows and kitchen cabinets. Those companies should be a little more accustomed to their customers needing accurate up front prices. But even they aren't smooth sailing. 

For the windows, we would love European Tilt & Turn style windows. We know they are more expensive than traditional casement and sliding windows. But how much more? Double? Maybe? So how much are the traditional windows? If regular windows are $10k, maybe $20k for fancy windows is reasonable. Or maybe regular windows are $60k, so double for fancy would be $120k. That's not so easy to swallow.  Or maybe it's a 10% difference?

So I've emailed a list of our windows to 5 companies, 2 regular companies and 3 Euro window companies. A week later, I have 2 quotes back, and a request for more info from a third. I have 1 regular quote and 1 euro quote. The regular quote is from a company MrDinks and I have been referring to as "The Russians". 3 guys we met at the home show a couple of weeks ago, all named Alexei and/or Vladimir. They are really eager. Really. They were hoping to get us to sign up at the home show. In addition to the quote, I've gotten 4 phone calls from Alexei. Unfortunately, they've actually quoted more for regular windows than the other quote for euro windows. When Alexei phoned me today, I told him we were thinking of going with the euro style. He told me they can get them, and insisted they'd be better priced than that company that sells them in our region. I have 5 companies to look into, I'm not sure which one he thinks I'm considering. Alexei says euro windows are double the price and he's never sold them because most people aren't willing to spend the money. But according to him, we're smarter than most people and we know good windows are not the place to go cheap. Well, if he's going to double his quote, I don't think flattery is going to get the sale.

I sent a follow up email to the 2 guys who didn't respond. One was on vacation last week but is working on my quote now. The other simply replied that they aren't interested in quoting a full house of windows. 

In kitchens, I've given a drawing to 3 companies. #1 came back claiming that the drawing I gave him had no measurements so he had to guess. The measurements were on it, and he was off by 30%. He also asked when I gave him the drawing what the height of the ceiling was. 9 feet. He wrote it on the drawing. And then he quoted me cabinets that are only 7' tall. What was the point in asking my ceiling height? Was there really a chance that I might be building a house with ceilings LOWER than 7'? 

#2 returned a quote with a number. A very specific number, down to the penny. But no details on what they were quoting on. No details about what kind of cabinets I'm getting for that price. No details on how many cabinets there were. So, their price is the lowest, even lower than the guy quoting me on a 7 tenths scale kitchen. Is this for a 3/5 scale kitchen? 

#3 also quoted a number without drawings. But at least he described the kitchen he was quoting on. This is the same guy who quoted on the cabinets for our existing kitchen, which we renovated 2 years ago. Back then, he gave me drawings, but wouldn't answer whether he had quoted on the upgrades such as pull out shelves in the pantry. So he didn't get the job. Now, the job is worth probably double (given that we also need bathroom and mudroom cabinets), and he doesn't even bother with a drawing. 

A fourth company I spoke to wants a $2000 deposit to even do a quote. I understand that there is work involved in creating drawings, but this is a major job. Who buys $30k+ of cabinetry without a drawing? Would you buy a car just based on a price, without knowing the features? At least I have enough from the first cabinetry quote to go to Direct Buy and see how their prices compare.